Katherine was on the subway home from a meeting with her Alcoholics Anonymous sponsor when it hit. They had just gone over the worksheet she was supposed to complete for her Fourth Step: “Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.”
“What if I was too sexy? I knew men looked at me even back then when I was 12. Was I seductive? I liked the attention. I sat on his lap. I hugged him. I didn’t leave when he started talking about those things.”
Suddenly, Katherine* recalled, the pieces seemed to fall into place. The sexual abuse from her stepfather, of which she had been too ashamed to even tell her mother until years after her mother left the marriage. The long-term relationship with a sociopath who had alternated between worshipping her and berating her. The three rapes. It was all her fault.
She looked at the worksheets her sponsor had given her for her Fourth Step. Each one had three columns: for the “resentment;” for the person the resentment was against; and for “my part” in the resentment. It was a given that every resentment, every bad thing that had caused anger, was at some level caused by the “alcoholic”—by Katherine herself.
She felt a sense of peace coming over her, she recalled of that night five years ago, like a great mystery had been solved. She was an alcoholic. The rapes, all three, she had invited them. Like her counselors said, they never would have happened if she hadn’t been drinking. Even the childhood abuse. She must have wanted it, sought it out. That was alcoholic behavior: self-centered and seeking attention.
As she waited on the platform for the next subway to transfer home, she briefly thought about letting herself fall onto the tracks.
A Desire to Deprogram
Rachel Bernstein, MA, LMFT, is a therapist who specializes in helping people who have left cults of all kinds to recover from the damage. “In an organization for people who have dealt with shame and looking down on themselves, as well as having other people look down on them, that shame shouldn’t be recreated within the organization that is supposed to heal them,” she told Filter. “They should have a place to go where they feel only supported and empowered and safe. If people come feeling broken and then the finger is pointed at them, it just takes them farther into a spiral of poor self-esteem and shame.”
Without condemning AA itself, Bernstein acknowledges the dangers of this kind that AA’s program can pose for some people. “While I think that there is some merit to some of the Steps, there needs to be flexibility to take away the Steps that are getting in the way of some people’s recovery.”
Rachel Bernstein
Katherine met Bernstein through Monica Richardson, the founder of an international Facebook group called “Deprogramming From AA or Any 12 Step Group.” It has over 1,000 members, all of whom are at some point in the process of leaving a 12-step group.
Richardson has led a crusade to spotlight how unregulated 12-step groups can form a happy hunting ground for sexual predators.
Katherine found the group through a friend from an online AA support group who was also dissatisfied with the pat answers she said fellow members gave to everything: You got raped? “Go to a meeting, call your sponsor! Find your part in what happened!”
The members of “Deprogramming” were in 12-step groups for anywhere from a few months to 20-plus years. It is not only the content of the program that they found problematic: Some have been raped, sexually abused or assaulted through their associations with AA or Narcotics Anonymous.
Richardson, who joined AA at 18 and had spent 36 years abstinent from alcohol in the program by the time she left, has led a crusade to spotlight how unregulated 12-step groups can form a happy hunting ground for sexual predators. She is the creator of the award-winning 2015 film The 13th Step—an expose of sexual harassment and abuse within The Rooms (“13th stepping” is the practice of old-timers hitting on newcomers).
Monica Richardson
Her work on the film involved researching the tragic 2011 murder of Karla Brada Mendez, a young woman who was introduced to AA by the rehab she attended for problematic prescription drug use. She met a man at those meetings who had been in AA for years (often court-ordered). He never stopped drinking, but used the meetings as a way to meet vulnerable women. The man, Eric Allan Earle, was convicted in 2014 of beating and choking Karla Brada Mendez to death.
Some report having been coerced into going off their psychiatric medications, against their doctors’ advice.
The members of “Deprogramming” have many other grievances. Some report having been coerced into going off their psychiatric medications, against their doctors’ advice. Others became frustrated with the lack of scientific evidence behind AA’s program. Others still are angry that any inquiry into other options is not only discouraged, but sometimes actively punished—by exclusion from social events, public humiliation at meetings, and constant reminders of the AA saying that to leave the program can only result in “jails, institutions and death.”
All found that AA’s promises did not come true: They may have stopped drinking or using drugs—often defined by 12-step groups and the treatment industry to include prescription psychiatric medications such as benzodiazepines or MAT drugs like buprenorphine—but they did not become “happy, joyous and free.”
Many feel that they replaced their addiction to a substance with an addiction to the program.
Why It Can Be Frightening to Leave a 12-Step Group
However, many members of “Deprogramming” report feeling afraid about leaving 12-step circles.
They fear not being able to stay “sober”—a fear instilled by 12-step teaching that as an “alcoholic” or “addict,” you can’t take so much as one sip of alcohol without complete reversion to dangerous patterns (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary).
Fear of social isolation is another important common factor. Twelve-step groups typically encourage members to build their lives around the program, to attend meetings every day for the first 90 days and many more ever after.
Many who leave the program therefore fear that they will no longer have friends once they do.
Many sponsors require their sponsees to call a certain number of people in the program every day, no matter what. Phone numbers are given out at meetings. Katherine’s sponsor made it mandatory that she call seven AA women daily.
“Service,” is also pushed, with new members strongly encouraged to commit to at least weekly duties—ranging from making coffee to chairing meetings, going to detox facilities to speak at patients’ mandatory AA meetings, and serving on committees.
If a member complains that daily meeting attendance and other demands are interfering with work or family life, the AA mantra, “Anything you put before your recovery, you will lose,” is typically repeated. So members often reduce their other social connections, actively encouraged to change the “people, places and things” in their lives. Many who leave the program therefore fear that they will no longer have friends once they do.
Another issue that departing 12-step members report as concerning is suddenly dealing with all the issues that drove them to substance use in the first place, but weren’t adequately addressed in the program. People with a history of trauma, in particular, can find that the onslaught of pain and memories—repressed while they were told in AA that “alcoholism,” was the root of all their problems—can be almost unbearable.
“I would venture to say three-quarters, if not more, of the people in AA are suffering from depression or anxiety or survivors of trauma, and were using alcohol to self-medicate,” said Rachel Bernstein. “So then you have people who are derailed from a more direct and relevant path to dealing with their particular issues, and instead they are told that alcohol is the only source of their problem.”
“Deprogramming from AA and Other 12 Step Groups” provides a community to share experiences, advice and validation for a perspective that the treatment industry and mainstream America deny: AA doesn’t work for most people. And for many, it does tremendous harm.
Cult-Like Characteristics
But do all of these program- and community-related problems within 12-step fellowships mean we can accurately describe them as cults?
I asked Bernstein about the extent to which AA and the rest resemble the bona fide cults in which many of her patients have been involved. Part of her answer depicted an environment in which unregulated autonomy—from group to group and from sponsor to sponsor—sees abuses go unchecked.
“People who came to see me got involved in 12-step programs wanting to turn their lives around, but then had a sponsor who became a controller, an abuser and a boundary violator, and there was nobody to talk to about it,” she said. “There are no safeguards within these groups. There’s no governing body to go to and say, ‘My sponsor followed me home and went into my apartment.’”
“That is cult behavior: Cults will give you an identity.”
“The other issue,” she added, “is that unlike a lot of the other anonymous groups, within AA, you have to call yourself an ‘alcoholic.’ That is cult behavior: Cults will give you an identity. Then you build not only your life but your self-esteem around that identity.”
Regarding the nature of “sharing” in meetings, Bernstein said, “Within 12-step groups, there are people who can defend against the social pressures, and others who can’t. They don’t want anyone to be unhappy with them so they’ll say what they need to say, they’ll make commitments, they’ll ‘admit’ things about themselves even if they aren’t true.”
“They’ll do that in a room full of people who are not mental health professionals and do not know how to hold onto that information in a safe way or help you heal,” she continued. “Other times people will feel the need to share information because they have someone else they know in the organization who brought them in, so they don’t want to disappoint that person.”
Katherine’s Path Out
Katherine, now in her 40s, didn’t throw herself onto the subway tracks that fateful night. Despite fear that her parents—who had sent her to a tremendously expensive 12-step rehab and were very invested in her AA participation—would be horrified, she called her sponsor the next day and said she was going to take a break from doing the Steps.
Before long, people at the meetings she attended daily began to shun her. They would talk about how, since she was pursuing a graduate degree, she thought she was too smart for the program. “We’ve buried a lot of smart people,” a familiar AA saying goes. “You have to get stupid to get the program.”
She would find her days interrupted by intrusive thoughts of AA.
Gradually, Katherine cut back on her meeting attendance. She found other support in SMART Recovery and Refuge Recovery, and eventually left AA all together. But the pain didn’t stop.
She would find her days interrupted by intrusive thoughts of AA. She alternated between terror that she would drink again and lose everything she had gained since leaving rehab, and bursts of anger at the program that had told her that she was nothing but an “alcoholic.” That none of her accomplishments or good qualities mattered.
Katherine’s rehab counselor had recommended that instead of returning to graduate school, she spend $4,000 a month to live in a “sober living” home. In this facility, she would have been isolated from the general population and made to go to daily meetings and group therapy with non-professional counselors, while working a minimum-wage job. However, her family didn’t have the money to throw at this, so she returned to graduate school, where she could live on student loans, and attended AA in the community instead.
And it was then that Katherine’s fear of being raped again turned into full-blown agoraphobia. She would walk home from meetings at night terrified. But the strange thing, she recalled, was that she wasn’t so frightened of the physical violation and pain of rape itself. She was afraid that she would be blamed. Because she was an “alcoholic”—and now everyone knew it because she had been to rehab, even though she hadn’t had a drink in months.
Seeking help, Katherine reached out to Monica Richardson, who recommended Rachel Bernstein, the cult deprogramming therapist. Katherine worked with Bernstein for nine months to recover from her AA experience.
Even more frightening, Alice said, is that she looked and even believed she was happy.
As the stories of “Deprogramming” members attest, many others have had comparable experiences. Alice,* for example, was raped at a graduate school party. Though she had no history of alcohol-related problems, her parents insisted she get an alcohol evaluation because she had been drinking at the time of the assault. It was a classic case of victim-blaming.
Alice was assessed as an “alcoholic,” as is almost anyone who is referred for an assessment to a treatment provider. She went to an Intensive outpatient program and then immersed herself in AA. Within AA, she experienced sexual abuse from her sponsor and men her sponsor insisted she date. She was told that the sexual abuse she endured as a child and the rape she experienced as an adult were her fault.
Even more frightening, Alice said, is that she looked and even believed she was happy during this time. “Upon hearing that I had a negative experience in AA, people that knew me during that 10-year period might be shocked. ‘But she seemed so happy,’ they might say… ‘How could she say that?’”
“My answer to this,” she continued, “is that yes, I was very happy–in fact, I was euphoric at times when I went to AA. This was because I was suppressing all of the emotions and things that AA told me would lead me to drink: anger, sadness, grief, critical thinking, negative thoughts, my intelligence. This led me to have a kind of false gratefulness, happiness and peace that only lasted for so long.”
Finally, Alice related, “at nine-and-a-half years of sobriety I could repress and suppress all of these things no longer” Dealing with all these feelings led to what she calls “the hardest period of my life.”
“I was hospitalized two times,” she said, “and was also suicidal for about two-and-a-half years. Over time, though, I have gotten more accustomed to having thoughts and feelings like I did before I went to AA, and have found that they pose no risk to my sobriety.”
Guidance on How to Deprogram
Both Rachel Bernstein and Monica Richardson give concrete advice on how a person thinking of leaving AA or any 12-step program, and wishing to deprogram, should proceed.
Bernstein advises:
1. Learn about methods of control and manipulative tactics. Bring a checklist to your next meeting and check off the techniques as you see them. You’ll be able to see for yourself if this group is treating you respectfully and being open about its intentions, or if it’s using manipulation to not only keep you there but make you feel like you have no choice but to stay. Here is a checklist of tactics to look out for:
* You are taught that the teachings and techniques are perfect. So if they are not working as intended, it’s because you are not following them the right way, or trying hard enough.
* The organization defines you, tells you what you are, who you are, and how to see yourself.
* Questioning or doubting the teachings is wrong and seen as an issue/problem of yours instead of your fundamental right.
* The organization is a closed system, and any issues you have with it have to stay in-house; there is no outside and/or objective governing body to bring your concerns to.
* Dependency is built into the system by making you feel that you cannot trust yourself on your own, and left to your own devices you would always make the wrong decision and your life would spiral downward.
* You never graduate. You are never done. Your participation and adherence to the teachings are expected to be lifelong.
* You are made to feel these are the only people you can trust in your life, and those outside the group are not able to support and ensure the path you should be on.
* The influence technique of “scarcity” is used by conveying the message that this group is the only group in the world that can give you what you need.
* It has its own social norms and lingo that are different from those in the outside community, so you feel more understood by those in the group and more a part of the world of the group, and this can separate you from those in the outside community.
* The group has one system it provides. No other systems or philosophies are integrated. So, whatever the system is designed to address is the only thing that’s addressed, and other potentially primary issues are ignored. Part of the “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail” idea, this can cause people to be misdiagnosed and to be derailed from getting help they may need with their true underlying issues.
2. Address the things that 12-step groups have taught you about yourself, such as that you are powerless or can’t control your life. Write them down, show them to somebody not involved in the group and ask, “Is this how you see me?” Some people in 12-step groups feel that they are reduced to the kind of person who can not trust themself. So if you can find people in your life who see the good in you and see your strengths and can remind you of them, you start to rebuild your sense of self and then you won’t tolerate the messages about how, left to your own devices, your life would be awful.
3. Talk to people who were involved in 12-step groups, then left and are doing okay. The more you see that there are people who are okay without AA, the more you see that you don’t need to go to keep yourself alive.
Richardson advises:
* Change your language. Stop calling yourself an “alcoholic” or “addict.”
* Read the SMART Recovery booklet.
* Learn about moderation and harm reduction.
* Read as many books on alternatives to AA as you can.
* Try out meetings such as SMART Recovery, LifeRing, Moderation Management or others.
* Take a mindfulness meditation or yoga class.
* Try new activities and hobbies. Go back to school or join a new community. Get busy living!
Considering Whether to Drink Again
While many people who leave AA decide to continue abstinence from alcohol, some decide to try drinking occasionally or in moderation. According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism’s giant scientific study, the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions (NESARC), almost everyone recovers from alcohol dependence, the vast majority without treatment or AA, and more than half go on to drink at moderate or safe levels.
“I imbibed again after 37 years of complete abstinence,” said Richardson. Slowly, I planned it—I drank one drink here and there at social settings, weddings, dinners out. I never wanted more, and I never wanting to get drunk. I was happy with a slight buzz.”
“Getting rid of my ‘time’ [sober time, as counted in AA] was key in moving on,” she continued. “I wanted to separate myself from that recovery world and its thinking. I felt so normalized after I became a moderate drinker … There is so much ego involved in the AA hierarchy of ‘time.’”
Whether or not to drink again is a choice that everyone must make for themselves. But based on her experiences, Richardson offers this advice for people leaving AA who are considering a drink:
* If you have unresolved trauma, address it. If you don’t, you may drink problematically again.
* Don’t drink with a head full of AA. Get over AA programming that says you will lose control if you have one drink before you try to drink.
* Make sure you have developed coping skills that don’t involve drinking. I had a long list of things I had already learned to do when I was stressed out and none of them included drinking. Develop healthy self-care.
* Don’t drink if you feel like you want to drink the whole bottle.
When “Help” Harms
“Treatment” should never make you want to throw yourself in front of a train. “Support” groups should never make you feel ashamed, worthless, or powerless. When your identity is being defined for you, you are in danger.
“They tried to erase my identity. I rewrote it.”
“In my 12-step rehab,” Katherine said, “my counselor read my story in preparation for my First Step meeting. She said it wasn’t ‘honest’ enough, so I added things. I made up lies to make my story worse than it was, just to make my counselor happy.”
If you’re lying to please others, if you find your fears are getting worse, not better, look for alternatives. While too many are trapped in 12-step programs—due to the court system; professional organizations for doctors, pilots and others that mandate attendance to regain licensure, and family or employer pressure—for those with the freedom and the desire to get out, there is help.
“It’s been a long road and life is far from perfect,” Katherine said, five years after her departure from AA. “I may not be ‘happy, joyous and free’ all of the time, but I never really believed the people trapped in those rooms were either. I have my voice back, and I can tell my own story. They tried to erase my identity. I rewrote it.”
* Names have been changed.
Photo via geo pixel /Wikimedia Commons
Show Comments
0796616
I’ve overwhelmingly only had wonderful interactions with old timers. I don’t know anyone who has experience sexual abuse from a sponsor and that is horrible! But not the norm. In general, I have been amazed by the willingness to help by old timers. Also- cults want to cut you off from your loved ones, not reconnect you! Megan Johnson
Lottsashoes
And here it’s already began. Trying to control peoples reality. Denying facts of peoples experiences. Perfect
Samantha Brown
This is her experience. You are only open to your opinion. This is not an objective view of AA. People are sexually abused everywhere including schools, religions, college, even doctors and yes–bars. AA actually promotes not getting sexually involved during the first year of recovery. It is very hard to root out sexual abuse as people in power tend to defend themselves like coaches, priests, teachers, doctors. I totally agree that in the case there is a problem, there should be a process for dealing with it. Fortunately most of the groups I have seen (I am a family member) have not shown a problem. My family member has benefited from the program in conjunction with therapy (SMART recovery was not available when needed). He was disowned by non addicted friends and his using friends encouraged use. AA gave him a community to feel human and accepted. Yes he was damaged by his use but AA helped him heal gradually. If there is a problem it should be fixed but that does not mean a valuable program should be dismissed or labeled a cult. Actually the harm reduction community is becoming a cult. It is rigid in its beliefs and oppose anything that gets in the way of its policies but it does not have a solution for those who suffer from true addiction. For example it is more opposed to AA because it promotes abstinence which harm reduction does not believe in.
Lottsashoes
* The group has one system it provides. No other systems or philosophies are integrated. So, whatever the system is designed to address is the only thing that’s addressed, and other potentially primary issues are ignored. Part of the “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail” idea, this can cause people to be misdiagnosed and to be derailed from getting help they may need with their true underlying issues.
Meryl Martin
There is actually no way to know for sure if sexual abuse occurred in a meeting or in an area because most sexual abuse and assault survivors don’t speak up about it. Also, in AA talking about negative occurrences in AA is discouraged. People who do speak up tend to experience a lot of victim blaming, cross talk, and abuse. So, I would say that these types of things are going on right under your nose but either you’re not aware of it or choose not to see it in order to justify your feelings about AA. I know that I was blind to the problems in AA for about a decade before I grew strong enough to actually admit that AA is a hotbed for sexual predators and that sexual assault from AA members is more common than I cared to admit for a long time. The truth is, too, that whenever sexual assault within AA is brought up, those who support it always just say that it’s rare and doesn’t happen in their meetings. Again, you actually have no way of knowing if that’s true, and secondly, it doesn’t change the fact that this is happening within AA, even if truly it isn’t happening at your groups. Saying “this doesn’t happen where I go” or “that’s not the norm” is a way of dismissing Alice’s trauma and experience and trying to say “Well that doesn’t really happen in AA” in passive aggressive terms. As I said, it’s pretty much a standard occurrence when anyone talks about sexual assault or issues within AA and it’s a way of minimizing the person’s experience, which really is another form of victim blaming and discourages people who’ve experienced trauma at the hands of AA members to speak up. It’s part of AA Groupthink and it’s not healthy. Now, people outside of AA can easily see these truths, but people within AA can’t. All this does is justify what this article is saying. It makes you and AA look bad.
Lottsashoes
Great observation. Thanks for your frank, real comment from your real experience . But they are going to attack you, cause you don’t know what really happened. Think they are going to gaslight you. But we know the truth.
Meryl Martin
Thanks! Yeah that guy who was commenting all over this actually starting basically stalking me on my blog and on other posts and articles that I commented on. It’s just classic behavior from a predatory person from AA.
Meryl Martin
Also, sexual assault and abuse is common enough that it likely happens in any community, whether it be a community of AA members, a church, a college campus, a small town… but even despite the statistics that one in five women and one in 71 men will be raped at some point in their lives, people still don’t like to believe that it can be happening in communities they they are a part of. This is especially true in AA, where people feel like their lives and well-being depend on not just the success of the program but on the fact that it changes people for the better and that people in the program are to be trusted, especially if they have x amount of time and/or have worked the steps/program. However, this creates a blind spot for many people in AA to the fact that statistically it is likely that sexual assault is occurring within the community. Also, when a person is in power, such as being in a position as a sponsor, it is easy for them to abuse another and get away with it. And, because many felons are sent to AA, likely the numbers of sexual assaults and abuse is higher than the overall population.
Lottsashoes
The majority of people that give negative posts here do the same on almost every article you can find on the internet trying to offer alternatives or give any new information for people to find help. And stalking you, that is common also. They just can’t stand for someone to have a difference of opinion. But this just proves the article is accurate. I actually think they are getting sicker and sicker. You have more support than not. And who needs these negative outdated opinions?
Meryl Martin
Well, yeah, they do seem to be getting sicker mainly because the more their feelings of security that are dependent on AA are threatened, the more they act out. And yes, this does prove that the article is accurate.
taylor_serenil
i did NA for a while (idk whether i was for-real addicted but i sure af was trying to quit at the time and couldn’t.) my first and favorite meeting (because it was like 9 PM and i’m a night owl) had a fair percentage of people who brought their kids along with them, and it was basically whispered grapevine knowledge from very soon into my experience to “be careful with your kids, just because somebody’s here doesn’t mean they’re safe to be around”. i don’t have a horror story, but i have no difficulty whatsoever believing that a whole bunch of people *do* after my time in the alternative side of AA. (i don’t remember getting the same whispers about being careful about *me*, other than the usual “we recommend not dating for the first year of being clean/sober” and getting told that a husband and wife who’d both been attending for at least a few months had asked at least one woman newcomer for a threesome in circumstances that were questionable at best.)
thetumblindice
Harm reduction believes in supporting any goal of positive change – including abstinence.
April Smith
Read the article. Rachel Bernstein, the actual expert in cult behavior, provides a list of behaviors to look for. Making people aware of danger, especially when so many counselors, drug courts, professional licensing bodies, etc. make AA mandatory, is giving people the tools to protect themselves. Vulnerable people come to AA, and dangerous people are court ordered to go there – a bad combination. If people feel safe and comfortable in AA or anywhere else (such as a church or school, where as you mention abuse also can take place), they are free to go. However, people should be aware of the dangers and prepared to protect themselves. Above all, no one should be forced to participate as a condition of staying out of jail or staying in a job.
Everyone has an anecdote about someone who was helped by AA. I know many. I know many people who were helped by yoga, meditation, SMART, having a baby, going to graduate school, and adopting a pet. I’m glad your family member has benefited. I personally have benefited a great deal from annual silent retreats at a local Jesuit (Catholic) Spiritual Center. Yet I do not criticize those who have been sexually abused by priests for speaking out about it.
And perhaps a bit more reading about harm reduction should be considered? As others have said, we support all change, including abstinence – from whatever. We just believe that individuals should set their own goals, not have them set by an arbitrary self-declared authority such as AA. We also tend to focus more on the actual harms of behaviors, rather than labeling a behavior good or bad in and of itself. If you are drinking and driving, that’s harmful to yourself and others, and you should stop. If you’re drinking alone in your apartment, that’s none of my business. If you choose to abstain from alcohol, heroin, or cheesecake, harm reductionists support that decision. I’ve never been excluded from any harm reduction for abstaining from alcohol or anything else for that matter. In fact, I’ve endured way more criticism for not drinking, and many more intrusive and inappropriate questions, in “regular” gatherings than at any harm reduction event. Harm reductionists in general don’t think it’s our business what you consume as long as you’re not hurting others, or stealing ours.
Jean S
I’m in AA and I hate the court mandating. Should be voluntary as it was designed to be. Very good points!
0796616
what part of “that is horrible” did you miss
Meryl Martin
When you follow that up with “it’s not the norm” and then share your positive experiences in AA it can look like you are minimizing the woman’s negative experiences in AA. The truth is, though, that this is what always happens when someone speaks out about sexual assault in AA. People who support it will say that it is horrible, but then always say that it isn’t common/not the norm and share positive experiences from AA. To a person who has been sexually assaulted by others in AA this feels like a stab right in the heart, and it feels extremely dismissive. As I said, though, I realize that you are acting just like a typical AA member in this situation so I can’t say that you know that you are doing this. You’re just following group norms.
Ben Johnson
Oh god its the me too movement jacked up on emotional steroids! The lady said that it is horrible! Of course its horrible but that doesn’t mean others have to hide our feelings or not talk about real life reality! As far percentages go I bet rape is very low in AA but either way its called the 1st amendment. Freedom of speech! Everyone has the right to their opinion! Sexual assault is just about everywhere you look to some degree. It can be very sad that woman and men are unable to face everyday life without becoming triggered by individuals just speaking their mind! They need to find the help that will allow them to rise above what others say.
Meryl Martin
Or, rapists need to stop raping in the first place so that men and women aren’t put in this position where they get triggered. It’s not the survivor’s fault that he or she gets triggered, the fault is on the perpetrator! And even with years of therapy sexual assault survivors still can get triggered. It’s not as simple as you are making it sound. And yes, freedom of speech is important, especially for survivors so that they can speak up about what happened to them and hopefully not get shamed and blamed (even though they always do, like what just happened here).
Mike Johnson
Meryl, you said “sexual assault happens in AA.” Do you mean to say that someone was assaulted inside of a meeting room? It’s very unclear what conduct you are referring to.
What IS clear is that you have a long story about AA.
I have found that feminists who come to AA meetings seem very unhappy. I’m not saying that YOU sound like an unhappy feminist, of course (wink wink). LOL.
Anyway, nobody is forcing you to go to AA. I have found that some meetings I enjoy going to and others I don’t enjoy as much, but I always try to find a way to enjoy my experience. It is quite possible that you are not even a real alcoholic, which explains (in my opinion) why you do not derive pleasure from going to AA.
Lottsashoes
* Questioning or doubting the teachings is wrong and seen as an issue/problem of yours instead of your fundamental right.
0796616
lol no it’s not. Just last night I was a speaker at a meeting and said “I don’t believe everything they say in the big book.” everything is open to interpretation.
Meryl Martin
But that’s not specifically disagreeing with something in the program. That’s a global statement that is considered okay in AA. But, do you ever hear anyone questioning specific teaching or aspects of the program and being supported while doing it? When I finally started voicing my dissent about specific aspects or ideas of the program was when things got really bad for me at meetings. Unless you’ve done this while in AA, or specifically seen someone dissent on specifics, you may not see what actually happens when someone goes against the grain. Everyone can love you but as soon as you have a specific complaint against the program, people who you thought were friends in AA will show a side of themselves that you never knew. At least that is what has happened to myself and others I know who have publicly spoken against AA and questioned it openly.
Jean S
I used to do it in early sobriety – question the criticized – and survived because I couldn’t drink any more and I knew it. I’m hardly a true believer and there’s things i like about the AA experience and that I don’t like but overall it’s very helpful to those of us who were last gaspers. Also, AA makes clear that it does have a specific set of precepts and it’s ok to not accept them and leave. Or not accept them and stay. For instance now I prefer meditation based recovery that is not AA but I’m glad I had the AA tools to get my off alcohol and give me my life back.
Meryl Martin
That was not my experience at all. I went for 12 years and it was very cult-ish. There was this whole, if you don’t follow the principles you will die mentality, and the option to leave was made out to be that if you left, the only options for you were institutions, jail, or death. That is the hallmark of a cult or group that is cultic: they make it out to you that if you were to leave the group, that terrible things would happen to you. I left three years ago and am finally now able to actually live my life without that type of fear hanging over me. And, a cult expert Steven Hassan has now listed 12 step groups as possible cults, although he still urges people to find help if they need it concerning drinking.
Tina
everything is not open to interpretation- that is not AA. AA has become very rigid and closed minded.
Peter Jones
That is a lie. You can say something like “I don’t believe that everything in the Big Book is true” but you can’t out criminals and rapists who are predating on people. That is a no no.
Jean S
I’ve done it several times. They don’t come to my meetings any more.
Jean S
Nah, I been going to meetings on and off for 34 years. I question everything and they even let a heretic like me in.
coastal_66
sexual assault is not the only infringement and abuse that goes on in AA. the other more ‘benign’ abuses happen regularly, at every meeting, in an indoctrinating way
Nancy Lebovitz
I’ve heard consistently that AA groups vary a lot from each other. Some might be toxic, and some not.
Peter Jones
Then you have been walking around with blinkers on. Yes, many old timers are nice people. Most of the problems start and end with step nazis (an AA term, not mine) who are the majority of those in AA. The nice old timers are a small minority of an even smaller minority of people who actually go to AA.
AddictionMyth
AA has saved the lives of millions. (When was the last time you heard that one?)
Technopundit
Never, actually. It makes no real sense. I’ve never heard it, but I suppose it might be true. Got any proof?
thetumblindice
Thank you so much for this excellent writeup. The Deprogramming group is an excellent safe haven for folks that have been harmed by this cult (Thank you Monica!). I was lucky enough to get away from AA fairly quickly. I know of way too many people who weren’t as fortunate as I was, And it’s going on every day to countless others. Yes some people like AA and find it useful. But the issues that lye within need to be exposed so that vulnerable people know what they may be getting into. So that families know what they’re suggesting to loved ones. So doctors are aware that members of the cult may tell their patients to ignore the doctor’s medical advice. It MUST be exposed!
John Q Fawkes
don’t forget the court system- they recommend this to everyone they think is an alcoholic, even if they didn’t get found guilty of a crime or accept a deal they make it a bail condition to go to these cultish meetings that is crazy to me!!!! maybe send them thru some real counseling not a group of other people that probably don’t have the best intent nor do they have the credentials to do such things! its madness
Lottsashoes
I think this is one of the best articles I’ve ever read about leaving AA. The list of things to check out is absolute wonderful. Thank you!
You will see comments made the will be exactly the warning of a cult by AA members. And they will be adamant that this is all lies.
In fact, this will be a great place to see this. Label the actions under the comments.
Marc Lewis
April, your descriptions of what goes on behind closed doors in the addiction world are exemplary, and this piece is no exception. Thank you for sharing your data, your dialogues with the experts, and stories like Katherine’s, which really bring the point home. This critique of AA has a sting that will be deep and lasting, The c-word can serve as kryptonite to AA’s super strength.
April Smith
Thank you Marc!
Scott Scale
Kryptonite , super powers ?? What ya readin’ a lot of comic books there or what ?
Been calling this a cult for decades. Hasn’t changed much .
Super strength? bunch of old farts in a church basement .If you let them control you , then you likely have other problems with reality.
Those other groups been around and are different but they aren’t very popular. Maybe you can find a way to force people to go to the other ones for awhile.
Scott Scale
Why don’t you find/read a book on addiction instead of making child-like “superman” references . There is plenty of research out there
Itinerant Geographer
Calm down. It’s just a metaphor.
Scott Scale
Relating important events to comic book themes means he reads too much comic books .
Itinerant Geographer
Have you taken a look around at pop culture anytime in the last decade or so? It’s all comic book heroes everywhere, to the point where it felt for a long time like those were the only movies that could even get made. It’s inevitable that that terminology would seep into our vernacular, even for people who don’t watch those movies or read comic books.
People talk that way now. It doesn’t necessarily mean they’re “relating important events to comic book themes.” Find something else to be upset about, because this isn’t worth your time.
Scott Scale
Keep living in that fantasy world . As well There is no AA super strength. It is a bunch of old men in a church basement.
If they control you , then you likely have that problem elsewhere.
I bet you think the WWE is real as well .
Maybe you can call the Undertaker and he can smash the AA super strength on a special SmackDown episode.
Scott Scale
“People talk that way now”
Yeah , so people who watch hockey and are fans envelope themselves in all that is hockey . The world is all about hockey “to them”.
Maybe you watch too many silly movies and fantasize about being a super hero.
Perhaps you have a “rescue fantasy” and so you have come to this thread to rescue Mr. Lewis from the evil Dr. Commenter.
confectionery
Haha Scot, you’re funny, telling Marc Lewis to read a book. You may want to look him up, and apologise here. hahaha.
Scott Scale
HaHa . so he did drugs and got himself addicted ,committed crimes ,and then abstinence saved his life .
Then babbles on about disease theory. Yay .
I know, if Heroin addiction is not a disease with heroin being the etiological agent, maybe he could go out and do some heroin and see how that works out .
I mean he argues it is a behavioral problem not a medical affliction. While he committed crimes and was a screw up caused by the drug addiction.
What a pile of useless nonsense .
Like I said if it is not chronic then he should go out and do some heroin . He should be able to do so “recreationally”
M M
Listen, Marc, I see that you have formed your words carefully for maximum effect (really, cult? c’mon …yawn) I also realize its been 3 yrs since you wrote but just stumbled on this so here we go… Here’s the thing: just like diabetes or cancer, addiction is an illness of varied severity. Likewise, treatments necessitate varying degrees of severity. AA and other 12-step offshoots, despite their admitted and blatant imperfections, are a life-giving option to otherwise hopeless people – the most severely addicted. You don’t see melanoma patients, after having been cured of their disease through removal of a skin growth, marching into inpatient oncology and berating stage 4 metastatic patients about the ill-effects of the radiation they’re receiving, do you? For you, criticizing AA may be an academic exercise, but from the addict’s perspective, it’s an assault – from an overblown balloon with no sense of moral judgment.
taylor_serenil
i did about two years of NA in a big city with a ton of meetings and did AA some during the first months (whether i was clinically addicted i have no idea. i definitely had problematic usage patterns, though.) AA always felt judgier, some of the NA meetings i went to had cultures that worked for me at the time, but a) some is only a possibility in a reasonably big metro area and b) “at the time”.
i’m not sorry i did it, but i’m also not sorry i’m one of their “failures” if you judge “i like a margarita/”tasty alcoholic drink” every now and then and i went back to smoking up but a whole lot less problematically imo” AS a failure.
because yeah, 13th stepping, they never tell you how hard it can be to find a sponsor (i had an awesome one who relapsed/lost sponsorship privileges for a while and no love during that time), and ALLLLLL the trauma stuff ever. also, court-ordered in my opinion is a violation of church/state stuff (and also another potential trigger. lots of folks have #churchtoo/#mosquemetoo/etc. type trauma. i don’t have that history, somebody used the Lord’s Prayer at the end of the meeting and while I wasn’t exactly traumatized I didn’t feel that was appropriate in a meeting.)
J K
Whatever improvements are made, and permutations have evolved, even malignant ones, it would be a mistake to trash the historical record in a baby/bathwater kind of way. In a world that was sorely needing some kind of approach to a big societal problem 100 years ago, AA got people started gathering and sharing about the problem of “humans interacting with substances” (alcohol in particular but I’m trying to be fair); brought the problem at large, out of the closet (shame reduction); proposed the idea that stopping usage when desired or destructive was possible, in the face of discouragement; proposed that spirituality was a possible source for this help, along with the support of others who “came out” as being the same (shame reduction); presented a plan to accomplish this, which was as purposefully generic as the author intended, or was capable; put the information in the published format of the day; attempted to make the effort less corruptible using secular principles such as non-profit, democracy, and anonymity (more shame reduction); I could go on at length from this perspective of 1935 as viewed from 2019, while trying to maintain objectivity, and it would be an exhausting list.
Everything that has followed, in its enormity, doesn’t implicate the original thing as evil or a conspiracy, including the organization of the same name today and whether all its varieties, offshoots, successes, flaws, abuses, modifications, industries, etc, good, bad or indifferent have been successful, however that is defined. I don’t believe there was evil in the original intent, and I think most of the original “principles” are still sound, even from a modern view. I believe the discussion and the exposure of crime and human abuse, and also human error and human love, atheism and religion, and all aspects of human suffering and its resolution, and also joy, as related to chemicals is all good. Blame, when its honestly assigned, is valuable, as much as credit is a useful thing when accurately given or taken away. Sensationalism can be effective, also misused. Perspective, which changes from age, experience, and education, among many other things, is enlightening to the individual and valuable when made public, as an obvious or more underlying influence.
I have a drift here, which is difficult to elucidate in the format of a comment. But I’ve taken a stab. To speak from experience gives validation to subject matter and opinion, and I’ll own that belief and the belief that I possess some which is valuable.. I’ve tried not to accidentally sound accusatory because I don’t have anyone in mind that I might be accusing. If I sound bland, insane or lost, or defensive and opinionating, so be it.
Peter Jones
Rubbish, the 12 steps, which are central to AA are all about blaming the victim. It sees alcoholism (which doesn’t even actually exist) as a moral or spiritual problem. The only solution is to become spiritually pure through doing the steps.
Scott Scale
If someone tells you that through their meetings you will become spiritually pure , then you are in a cult. Does it say that in the steps or somewhere? I am curious.
As well you can drink whenever you want now. , since alcoholism doesn’t even actually exist. How is that working out ?
shifra freewoman
i am confused. Alcoholism does not exist? Really the smashed up cars and broken lives from people who drink too much and cannot stop does not exist? The cirossis does not exist or all the crimes folks commit when too drunk? Help me here.
i dont think it is about becoming spiritually pure, i think it is about looking at your life and how you act and changing.
Paul Merritt
The step work does not ask you what your part was in sexual abuse. It asks what your reaction was and gets you to look at how you carried that resentment into other parts of your life. The original poster does not understand the step work and did not have proper guidance when doing it.
coastal_66
not true. it is often applied exactly as described in the article.
Peter Jones
That is disingenuous. Most sponsors see that sexual histories are revealed and that the victim sees their role in the assault. Maybe not all people in AA do this but the majority do,
Jean S
Incorrect. There is a “my part” column when you write down sexual abuse. It’s the sponsor’s job to tell you that sometimes we don’t have a part. Not doing that would be BAD sponsorship.
Jean S
And I’m 34 years sober
RQ
Paul Merritt, this is EXACTLY it. It would be like complaining about the efficiency of a car when we have not filled it with the correct fuel or taken it for an oil change. The problem isn’t the car – it’s the owner of the car.
Kyle
I agree that AA is very cult-like, seeing that I was in one before–Mormonism. I never liked identifying as an “addict”. It’s like you’re not bipolar, you have bipolar disorder. And I never considered myself a drug addict or alcoholic, I just got a little carried away at times and other people shamed me into getting treatment. I think there are underlying issues which lead people to abuse alcohol and drugs, but AA just paints it as a disease that you are helpless to. Since going to rehab and leaving AA I have been able to resist drinking as a way to cope or using drugs I know will get me in trouble but I can also have a drink here and there and not get carried away. If I told this to someone in AA they’d be like nope, you’re going to spiral downhill again one day.
I also didn’t like the idea of the attachment to the date you got sober. Like, I don’t know. That is just a little bizarre to me. Who cares how long you’ve been sober? I also noticed a lot of people only go there because it’s court mandated– they don’t want to get sober, they’re only there because they have to be on court order. That’s completely different from actually wanting to get sober. One last thing I noticed is people tend to beat themselves up for wanting to drink or do drugs, they blame the disease. I just didn’t like that. You’re not a bad person for wanting to have a drink here and there.
walter
I was raised in AA… my parents met there…. my mother is the classic cultist (been there 30 something years now), my father moved on and recognized the program as just a tool… took what he liked, and moved on.
neither have had a drink, but my mother is still suffering from the brainwashing… and she’s in her 60’s….
i sadly don’t think she’ll ever understand. she thinks it can’t be a cult because they don’t have a knife to her throat.
being raised in the “program”, going to AA and NA meetings as i got older…. i was thankful to be “raised in program” because i could see RIGHT THROUGH the programming.
i do think it helps super religious ppl… sorta… beyond that, it’s just creepy, cultish and invasive… even tho they tell you over and over that it’s not…
stop going tho? wait for the shaming to begin LOL!
AA needs to either get regulated, or discontinued.
i’ve seen what it turned my mother into… i know what it COULD have turned me into…. luckily, i had enough of my father in me to realize that these “AA folks” had NO control over my life, and most were just replacing booze with platitude after platitude…
and yeah…”13th stepping” is WAY more prevelant than ever.
Scott Scale
It is kinda creepy that you “like” your own comment.
I guess sometimes the “nut” doesn’t fall far from the tree.
RQ
Funny, I’ve never heard tell of a cult that holds knives to folks’ throats? I’m glad you’ve “seen what it turns your mother into”. Isn’t it great? So have my children. Thanks to AA, I have gone from a drug and alcohol addicted, self-loathing, jobless, suicidal, abused and abusive criminal, to an employed, joyful, responsible, tax-paying, 4th-yr-University student, clean record, full time loving mother with multiple years clean!
DJ G
I was in and out of AA for 27 years in TX. I always felt like it was a cult.Max s
obriety time was 3 months total.A lot of people thee for 13Th stepping and other agendas, not to get sober it is really an evil place. I seen guys sponser newcomers just to pick up the new sponsees wife/girlfriend. Bill w. practiced the occult with oija boards and seances, this is not a christian religious program if you think it is.Me and my wife of 19 years who was my party buddy borke up after i went to AA, she never went.I dated some AA babes,if you call it that when I was married.They say hang out with clean and sober people, I would not be seen out on the streets with these people.
Mind contol? I did not know what a Blackout, or a resentment was till I heard them explained in meetings THEN I STARTED HAVING THEM BIGTIME! I partied with the best,o rworse all over the world and never blacked out before.This is a Mind F888ing Cult organization.So glad I left.
Joseph Gibbs
This article is a breath of fresh air and truth. You could say AA does help some people, but it does not help many many more. Conveniently all of them could not surrender to the AA program. It is safe to question a sacred text as a reliable way to treat a medical condition and the effects AA’s recruitment/ brainwashing tactics on a person suffering from a variety of mental health issues. I think the one thing I missed seeing is to stay sober AA members are encouraged to “share the message” with people in the depths of an addiction seeking help. These people are more easily manipulated in a time of desperation. The “Bottom”. So to stay sober an active member is running a new member through the doctrine and same tactics used on themselves. Don’t forget about a treatment industry, deemed medical, that uses the non-scientific doctrine as a basis for it’s programs. Most of the workers there are also members of a variety of 12 step groups. They repeatedly churn people in and out of their doors milking the patient’s insurance. It is a form of human trafficking. The fact that there is a large medical industry primarily ran by 12 step group members poses a problem to real scientific evidence being taken seriously or getting the proper light of day. This is because nothing is better than the 12 step program and no one should question it. It really shows the extent to which these groups have sunken their claws into members and society.
Peter Jones
Thanks for the article. I am totally disillusioned with AA after attending meetings for over 10 years. I was addicted to meeting and many of the things that you state in your article are true. I was referred to AA by a Drug and Alcohol counsellor at my community health centre and so just assumed that it was evidence based. It is not, and I spent much time trying to get latest research incorporated into sharing and meetings but in the end it was a waste of hot air. What really did AA in for me was the sheer hypocrisy of the majority of members that I came across and got to know. On the surface they seem like a pretty together bunch of people until you get to know them. Many of the members live in squalor and can never hold down a job. They just float around meetings telling others how to run their lives when they cannot even run their own. I married a member who was diagnosed with cancer. She had some good friends in AA but the way that she was treated by some members was appalling. You’re not allowed to complain though. Well, you can, but people have an attitude of turning a blind eye to any misdemeanours of members. It is really a christian sect with Bob and Bill as the only recognised saints. I can’t believe that I fell for it but I was pretty sick when I first went t these meetings and as I said, I was referred by someone from a medical centre. There was lots of sexual harassment and assault but again, you were discouraged from talking about it. I’m glad to be out. I’m still sober after twelve years and my wife has past away. She was unhappy with AA in the end but her friends kept her coming back.
Scott Scale
Thank you for telling us your “sober time” from something that “(which doesn’t even actually exist)”
Kevin Morgan
Nasty and typical of AA.
Jean S
AA is definitely not perfect or meant for everyone. But just reading the first few paragraphs: That would be some BAD sponsorship if her sponsor didn’t hear her fourth step and stop her from in anyway blaming herself in the “my part” column! Yes, AA was initially design for male drunks not for female victims and even though I am sure this kind of stuff happened more in the past – and in conservative/rural parts of the United States – it has evolved a lot since then in a myriad of ways. I’m sure abuses occur as they can in any organization but in 34 years of sobriety I have not experienced a female sexual abuse victim being blamed by her sponsor for her own rape or childhood sexual abuse. Pretty unheard of in my world. My (and most) sponsors are there to listen and offer balanced advice. That’s why it’s important to listen in meetings for a long time and find a sponsor with some experience you can trust. I agree that there are facets of AA that could be called cult like – there is this insistence that your life will fall apart if you evolve into other growth processes later in sobriety (not true) that kind of put the fear of God into many of us without cause. But I’ve never been asked to pay more than a dollar a day so that kinda negates the financial aspect of cults. (In fact nobody in the organization is every asked to donate more than that). Another downside: individual members of AA can be difficult to be around as they are going through the ups and downs of early sobriety and that can be a turnoff for old timers and visitors and male predators are a problem, especially in lower bottom clubs like the one mentioned above. (Women, go to women’s meetings!) But it’s also kinda of beautiful that anyone in society can join and that it’s there for everybody. And while it’s definitely not for everyone and I believe it’s good to take breaks when you’ve been going for decades, AA saved my life early on and I’m still grateful for it. It’s definitely not for everyone. Also, wanted to mention I have always disagreed with court mandated AA. It goes against the traditions.
Conuly
That would be some BAD sponsorship if her sponsor didn’t hear her
fourth step and stop her from in anyway blaming herself in the “my part”
column!
Okay, so who stops bad sponsors, those who are incompetent and those
who are actively malicious? What governing body steps in and makes them
quit? What formal training to sponsors receive so they don’t repeat and amplify
the same mistakes that were made when they were newbies?
Jay Richards
Wonderful discussion. I am actually a counsellor for people in”recovery” but it is based on how the person defines it for themselves. Some are quite satisfied with a.a. And it is a welcome strategy for them; but not all. Some focus on harm reduction, SMART Recovery, etc. I am not the dictator of how they must live, but recognize their agency/free choice.
On another note, I was convinced in my 20’s that I was “alcoholic”, started a.a., found an enigmatic sponsor, and let the man dictate life to me. While I have tremendous love for him, I realize the sick dependency I had on him. One dependence for another. Eventually I left the clique where I actually felt I had no place. I wandered for a long time with a.a.programming, eventually taking the dreaded drink after 20+ years “sober”. What I found, though was NO desire for the next one. None. Still, the guilt haunted me. I’d told others my story of my past and they feared I’d have a major relapse. That has not happened. I have an occasional drink now with no desire to get drunk. I hated the loss of control I felt all those years ago and that’s reminder enough.
So I approach my own choices the same as i approach them with others. IAM actually free to choose drink or not, and it’s starting to feel liberating. I would be lying though if I said the A.A. guilt was gone. It will take time.
Nicole Salter
Thank you for a beautifully written piece. I am currently writing a book about my sixteen years in a twelve step fellowship and I can honestly say that these issues you raise were simply never addressed. My heart literally hurts and my body is shaking from flashbacks reading your article and identifying with the experiences of these other members. I was one of the lucky ones who stayed sober the entire time, but at the cost of my own well-being and at the price of taking others through the same abusive processes. Meanwhile all around us, people died by suicide and overdose, and we said they just didn’t want it badly enough. I thought I was going crazy for a long time because the reasons people seemed to have for disagreeing with or leaving the program were not articulated like this; people simply fade away and we assume they are dead in the gutter rather than living their lives.
THANK YOU for saying what so many of us are thinking.
M M
In regards to the first woman – Katherine’s – experience. I’m sorry, but this is a ridiculous example. The problem is not the 4th step, but the sponsor’s incorrect interpretation of it. It’s the human error of the sponsor; she does not have a firm understanding of the 3rd column. I too encourage my sponsees to seek “their part” in every resentment, and I’ve sponsored countless women who have experienced childhood sexual abuse. But, NEVER would I suggest that their part included culpability as children. What I DO point out, is that carrying around childhood resentments into their 20s, 30s, and 40s, is selfish. It is harmful to their relationships with their partners, their children, and themselves. It perpetuates further drug& alcohol use and thus further harm. “Their part” is the hanging on to resentment for years, using it as an excuse to drink, playing the victim card. When they see this, in combination with the fact that the resentment is not harming the perpetrator, a powerful surrender usually occurs. A release from self-imposed bondage. The 12 steps are the ultimate tough love, they’re meant for hard users as the last house on the block. If you’re not there yet, great, go to therapy.
Lena
This is not much better though – saying that someone “hanging on to the resentment” of having been sexually abused as a child is “selfish” and intentionally “playing the victim” is also damaging. Sexual abuse can affect a person profoundly and there is a different way of healing from this than tough love..
shifra freewoman
Look, i want to be clear, that no abuse is ok. yes 13th stepping is a problem and it must not be engaged in. I dont see much of it, and it does happen. no one says this is ok and when it happens it needs to be called out. if anyone is saying someone is responsible for being raped, that is sick.
it is not AA or NA mandating people to the program, that is the court system. It recognizes that many of us get help in these programs. AA or NA etc is strictly voluntary.
Someone said that AA is not Christian. that is true, it is there for all people whether, religious spirtual or secular, whatever your faith may or may not be.
yes Bob and Bill were into Spiriitualism, however, that is not a part of AA that is the part of the 2 founders personal lives.
no one has to be into spiritualism or seances etc.
Bill and Bob never looked at themselves as any kind of gods. They formed the traditions in part so that the program would continue when they were gone.
our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern.
i sure as heaven hope that we take care of any problems in 12 step groups because the government is not needed in this case to regulate us. We are anonymous and we need peoples lives to be private and confidential.
again, professionals have their place, and i utilize them but they are not gods and they have not done a very good job re addiction and mostly they give drugs to solve drug addiction.
yes, many of us are self medicating to overcome the abuse we faced. the answer to that is healing the abuse, not self medicating with booze, and drugs from the street, and not dr assisted medicating.
i maintain that for the vast majority and then some, the answer to abuse and addiction is not more drugs. whether legal or illegal, whether from the street, the liquor store or the dr’s office.
we dont need drugs, we need love community connection support healthy food and water etc.
Thank you for listening
it seems we could all try to work together to solve this problem.
Zephod Beeblebrox
This article hits me where I live. I left the fellowship sometime ago and often said I have stayed sober despite AA. There is a great deal of truth in this article, and I can relate. It is a case of the cure being equal to if not worse than the illness. Despite the negatives, I have met good people in those years, some that did follow the traditions and were not sponsors but rather closed-mouthed friends. AA also gave me a higher power that would not shove a bolt of lighting up my backside. Then often, because my understanding of that power differed from theirs, I was shunned and denied service work. I broke free from the fellowship long ago and am still abstinent for 20 years. Critical thinking must prevail; however, that is not possible when a person is either mentally ill or beaten down by life, making them a perfect target for some of the predators in certain 12 step groups. One can only hope that once a person gets to the point of being capable of thinking critically that they are lucky enough to see manipulation for what it is. Critical thinking is also the one thing that is discouraged, so a person really must survive AA.
Only Human
Lousy advice. Especially since she didnt have to take it herself. She was already sober thru AA until she started fault-finding and being a missionary as much as any REAL cultist. What good is her advice if she didnt have to take it herself? AA doesnt PRETEND to be psychotherapy or medicine. It’s mainly about fellowship and keeping each other encouraged and living a moral life. Get over yourself, lady.
Technopundit
Breaking away from AA may not be easy. Dependence follows patterns.
The treatment centers have become extensions of our local groups and continue to bus in unwilling/unwitting clients so we can babysit for them. This distracts the members. AA is to help people who want to stop drinking. Treatment centers are to convince people that they have trouble. That’s not our job.
Treatment Center Clients who are adamantly non-alcoholic wander in and out, interrupting others, and enjoying a few minutes of stolen freedom away from their conscription, then emptying the snack table. Non-participants are normal attendees, but not at this scale.
If you’re a woman, beware of some very slick operators whose motto is “Get ’em before they read the book.”
Cell phones ring frequently, despite requests to silence them, and without apology or objection, as you never know who you are trying to deal with. Expect it. Long-time members often remain silent, merely observing, not sharing, as this is not the environment they originally came in for. Seek them out.
Passive aggression is the norm, as the result of treatment center culture, not AA principles. People frequently leave the fellowship, complaining about rudeness and low-level abuse.
Respond to a heckler and be admonished for ‘crosstalk’ by chair people who rarely pay attention. They are afraid to be shouted down themselves. So stand up for yourself.
After 30 years of non-consecutive attendance, and no relapses, I am forming my final exit strategy. AA no longer allows me to feel safe. Old timers try to hold on to any shreds of the original program which still exist, continually undermined by random outsiders. Our book is now largely dismissed. Traditions are ignored.
This has all happened slowly over time, and I feel like the proverbial frog in a pan of now-boiling water.
If you really think you’re alcoholic, I’d say “Heck yeah. Give it a try.” If you express a desire, help will present itself, maybe pretty quickly. Follow your conscience and intuition. You’ll be OK.
I stopped drinking in one day. For years, I could not help but drink every day.
Just don’t expect apostles and choirs. The place is free to the public. Criticizing it is nonsensical. It’s a place to bring your alcoholism and find perspective. Use it.
Read the ‘Alcoholics Anonymous’ book fully, first. It’s free online, and knowledge of the book will help protect you from outliers.
Attendance will help, if even only to distract a person from drinking. Newcomers see the results of alcoholism, and don’t want to be that way. You might even meet somebody who actually “works” the program… Score!!
Besides, AA is cheap. If you can identify anything better, go for it. Just research carefully, as the “recovery industry” is largely a full of workers hired randomly, often drowning in student debt.
But leave the kids at home. They’ll thank you later.
sharron
thankyou for this article. I don’t go anymore, the last contact I had was with NA. The sponsor I had of 35 years who works a programme every day, told me I was enabling and helping family members to kill themselfs because they didnt think it worked , because I had relapsed. According to her my relapses in AA and NA were helping my family to kill themselfs with drugs. By makeing them think it didnt work.
she has never met any of my family, she knew nothing about them, other than some had tried AA and left and were useing and drinking .Those in my family that went to AA and left were my uncle who left when I was 14 years old and died ..I had never been to AA at that time .
.so I couldn’t have cause him to think that AA dont work.
MY cousins son who went to NA stayed for 9 months and left used and died..I didnt meet my cousin or her son untill i was in my 50’s she had moved away when both she and I were children and I had no contact untill i was in my 50’s..her son went to NA stayed and left NA before I ever met him or her, he had no idea I had been there and relapsed and left. he went and left before he met me.
So I couldn’t have caused him to think it didnt work.
My nephew who went to NA and left and still uses drugs now.
He went there and left there at a time when I had no contact with my sister his mum or him. My sister and I live far away from one another and had many years when we had no contact. Her son my nephew went there and left before he or I ever knew either or us had been to AA NA.
I found this assumption accusation or was it a guilt trip of hers very disturbing.
I told her that I had found this accusation was laying heavy on my mind, that I disagreed with her and that I didn’t want to take NA any further than I had, thanked her for the help she had gave me wished her all the best and left NA.
I dont care what other people with drug problems do if they want to go to AA NA then go .If they like it want it are happy there good. if they find something else that helps them good. If they dont want to go there or anywhere else and want to use and drink. that’s up to them that’s there choice.
I personally don’t blame anyone for my drug use or drinking. The times I used drugs or drank were my own doing my own choices. No one who left AA or NA or who was going and drank or used after going who relapsed , every made me think that it dont work or made me think I should use drugs or drink to.
I refuse to take the blame for my adult family members drinking or drug use, or there choices around leaving or staying in any 12 step spiritual organisation.
Breath ofAngels
Evidently you have your own program you promote, a good way to grow it is to assassinate the competitors “AA”. AA has had success to millions of alcoholics and addicts, it was designed only for low bottom drinkers initially, the success stretched into hard drinkers, drug addicts etc.. who have spin off 12 step treatment meetings that are everywhere now.
There are bad apples in every group, you cast blame on the entire org and that’s wrong. I have had bad experience’s with some people in AA. Church, Starbucks, the bus Home Depot etc… granted not all AA meeting have the same feel or vibe as others. most are very welcoming and safe.
Alcoholism and addiction is a progressive illness, some people can stop or moderate with other therapy or help or even on their own .depends on the progression. AA states that , and it never says it is the only way.
it’s main goal is to help the real alcoholic who has progressed to the point of no return and offers a spiritual remedy.
People who want to moderate their drinking or resolve other issues other than drinking are using AA for unintended purposes. it’s these people who can’t have it their own way and want to change AA to their own liking .
The 12 steps is a spiritual method of recovery, no one forces it on anyone, if you don’t like it ,well do something else. so AA didn’t meet your expectation? try something else. did someone mistreat you or abuse you? call a damn cop and sue them send them to jail, or have a good cry and grow up!
AA is not a cult, if it is then every group of people meeting for a common purpose is as well.AA does not try to control it’s members unlike cults that is a fact!
Alcohol is just a symptom of the problem , a real alcoholic is self centered in the extreme that’s what must be dealt with on a spiritual level, AA helps us work spiritual principles in our lives to help us change our behaviors and not be self centered, that is a life long journey. now a person can stop drinking and yet be just as insane/crazy/manipulative as he was when he was drinking and it’s usually just a matter of time until the ego wins out and they drink again. they are always looking for a way to beat the system.
AA doesn’t try to control anyone, it just suggest a method that works for many since 1930 something. take it or leave it.
just remember no matter where you go where there is a group of people or a site like a dating app, etc.. there will commonly be someone who is sick mentally so use common sense when meeting new people.